«Italy is right, hypocritical French government. NGOs spot on crossings»- Corriere.it

Mrs Le Pen, what do you think of the diplomatic crisis between France and Italy?

“The French government’s accusations against Italy are profoundly unjust and reveal a rejection of democracy. The Italians have elected Giorgia Meloni, notoriously opposed to the illegal anarchist immigration that the NGOs are trying to impose on us. By refusing to disembark on the Ocean Viking, the government in Rome is merely respecting the will of the Italian people. As for the French government, I find it hypocritical because it evokes humanitarian reasons but in 2018 the Aquarius ship was rejected by France and was forced to sail to Valencia”.

France argues that according to international law the Ocean Viking should have landed in Sicily, in the closest safe port.

«And why, on the other hand, don’t the NGO ships, which I consider accomplices of the smugglers, land in Algeria, or even closer in Tunisia? Aren’t those safe havens? It is an attitude of great contempt towards those countries, moreover incomprehensible given that every year hundreds of thousands of Europeans go to spend their holidays in Tunisia. Are Tunisian ports safe for tourists and not for Ocean Viking? The truth is that the French government is in favor of immigration and does not want to say so”.

Indeed, the interior minister, Gérald Darmanin, has just announced the expulsion of 44 of the 234 migrants who arrived in Toulon on the Ocean Viking.

“Excuse me, but we’ll see. Clemenceau said “Jean Jaurès’ speeches can be recognized by the fact that he uses all the verbs in the future”. And we can very well apply the same sentence to Darmanin, his speeches always have the verbs in the future, and reality does not always follow. Then, the point is that opening ports to the Ocean Viking and other NGO ships encourages migrants to leave. The only truly humanitarian policy is a policy of firmness.”

But don’t you think that there is too much focus on NGO ships, when in Italy they represent just 16 percent of arrivals? And according to some data relating to 2021, the number of departures of dinghies in the Mediterranean does not change, whether NGO ships are present at sea or not.

“It is true, many migrants arrive by other means. But the damage done by the NGOs does not concern so much the number of migrants they transport, as much as the publicity given to the crossings. It is as if they were saying “go ahead by sea, we will be there to save you”. It is an irresponsible attitude that encourages very dangerous journeys. More generally, NGOs do the opposite of what we think is right. We are in favor of a dissuasive policy, because European countries have nothing to offer to those who arrive”.

How do you evaluate the path of bilateral agreements with the countries of the southern shore of the Mediterranean, chosen by the Italian government?

«It is unacceptable that these countries fail to respect international law, which obliges them to recover their fellow citizens when they emigrated in clandestine conditions. France, for example, has a problem with Algeria: in the first six months of 2021, only 22 expulsions were carried out out of the 7,780 decided by the French authorities, because Algeria issued just 0.2 percent of the necessary consular passes. Then we need to move on to a tug of war, for example not to grant visas to Algerians, including their leaders, and to block remittances from Algerians from France to their families in Algeria».

At the European level, if so far there has been no agreement on a mechanism for the compulsory, and not just voluntary, distribution of migrants, it is because the countries with sovereign governments such as Hungary and Poland are opposed above all. Isn’t this a counterproductive effect of the primacy of the national interest?

«But there is no inconsistency in the fact that each country thinks first of all about its own interest. I don’t want to welcome migrants into my country and I don’t even want to impose them on others. The European Union cannot impose migrants on peoples who do not want them”.

But the idea is that European solidarity can help a country like Italy, which due to its geographical position is a destination for rubber dinghies more than others.

“The point is not to redistribute the migrants who arrive. The objective must be to prevent them from arriving, starting with discouraging the NGOs».

In your opinion, how will the crisis between France and Italy evolve? The tones were very harsh.

«Yes, but President Macron says one thing one day and the next day he is ready to say another… He has been much criticized on the left for having immediately met Meloni in Rome, he wants to be forgiven. I see a little cinema in this great unrest of our government».